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Hi My Friends

I would like to make Camembert this week for the first time and I'm following the recipe on the New England Site. I've written to them for an answer to my question, but they really are dang slow at responding, so I thought I'd give it a shot here.

The instructions say this at the coagulation step:

"A small amount of rennet is then added to begin the initial coagulation in a short period of time (15-20 min) but allow the final firming of the curd to continue for a much longer period of time (90 minutes or more from rennet addition).

This will result in a curd that tends to hold the moisture and fat better due to the stronger protein matrix.

Add about 1/4 tsp (1.25ml) of single strength liquid rennet.

The milk now needs to sit quiet for 90 minutes while the culture works and the rennet coagulates the curd. "

How would you interpret this? Am I right to say that:

1. I prepare my 1/4 tsp of single strength rennet as per usual in 1/4 cup cool unfiltered water.
2. I add a wee bit of that mixture to the milk, stir and let is sit 15-20 minutes.
3. I add the rest of the rennet mixture after the 15-20 minute mark and stir again (even if curd is already forming??), then let it sit an additional 90 minutes.

What do you think? Thanks so much!!
Rain

Yes... odd as that sounds. You probably won't see much curd from the first shot ... cams have a soft curd to begin with. Often it's not even cut at all, rather sliced thin ladel scoops are gently placed into the molds after the 90 min wait. I make cams every 6 weeks, so I use a well rehearsed recipe that works well (from one of the books). I've never tried this 2 shot rennet technique and am interested in your results... good luck, and thanks.

F

Thanks Fritz

I have some of Caldwell's books and I've looked elsewhere for recipes but this is the first one that mentions the double rennet/coagulation step. I'm a very newbie and bought my supplies from their company so I thought I'd follow their recipe.

I've never made a soft cheese, so it seemed a strange idea to "upset" the rennet working 20 minutes in...but I'm willing to give it a go!

I'm going to try this in the next week, I'll definitely post the results!!

Rain

You will be fine, imho... cams are easy and very forgiving ... I use Caldwell's as well and it also is not too tricky... not as tricky as your mozzarella, I assure you use real cam/soft cheese wrap paper for the aging or finishing (week 5) not cello, parch or tin foil.. some age it fully unwrapped in a maturing box...(my preferance)  10*C 85-90% RH but flip them bi-daily and keep the box/mat dry, clean and free of white moulds. Open the box for a few min during your maintenance routine to let it "air" otherwise ammonia will build up. You will also need to get the thickness just right... it should have a "hockey puck" proportion for proper and even ripening. So, you will need to fill the molds just right to settle to that level... To get it just as you like it... (3-4 inch moulds usually you need to fill to close to the top.
Document fill levels, end result thicknesses, maturing temps and times. I do 2-3 weeks in cheese fridge then 3-4 weeks in regular fridge unwrapped but always in maturing boxes and it gets them usually to a nice medium rare state wrap when your happy with them or one week before if you want to give some away.
It may take a few batches to dial it in... but when you do... boom!
Good luck ..let us know

Hi Rain,

I think the recipe may be poorly written and it has you slightly confused.

Camembert uses less rennet than other harder cheese as you want a soft curd. This then results in a longer flocculation time, and a longer Floc factor is used to determine when to cut.

When they are talking about the in initial coagulation time they are talking about Floc time, what is Floc  time?
It is the time that it takes for an initial gel to form,this can be measured using a small spinning bowl or plastic cup on the top of the milk. When this won't spin freely you have Floc time or the initial coagulation time talked about in the recipe.

Once you have this you can use different Floc factors depending on the type of cheese to achieve the moisture content of the curd you want. Camembert is 6x so if you have an  in initial coagulation time/Floc Time of 15 minutes you would x 6 to get 90 minutes. Each type of cheese has a different Floc factor to achieve different curd mouisture levels in the final cheese.

By using Floc times and factors you can take into account the variations of your milk and Rennet and cut at the correct time. Rather than using a time based approach and the clean break test.

So after all of that. I would add all of your rennet at once!

Good luck

Mathew.

I too think that you actually add the rennet all at once - or at least, that's what I do. (So it must be right - right? Right? )

I agree badly worded recipe.

Only add rennet once

If you want to try floc on this recipe , multiply the time to floc by 4 then set timer to that result minus the original time . Or just times by 3 and set timer for that result.

Try this method..

https://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14002.0.html

Been working for me for a few years now. !!  Please if you have any question PM me.  Camembert is not difficult, it is fiddley..

--Mal

Hi Fritz Thanks for your response! Oh gosh...let's not discuss the Mozzarella lol! I bought the Brie/Camembert cheese wrap paper so no worries there, and I have the right molds and cultures...so I'm excited to try! But I don't think I'm generous enough to give them away lol! Thanks for all of the advice! I guess the only thing I'm missing is the right size ripening boxes. I'm going to start with just two. I'll definitely post my results!!

Hi Mathew You are right that the recipe was poorly written...a lot of them on that web site are but it's like pulling teeth to get a straight answer from their "cheese expert" who wrote the recipes. And thanks for explaining the "floc" time. This is all new to me and I want to build my confidence a little. I wasted to much money on milk during the Mozza crisis of 2017 lol...I just want a few nice Cams to be proud of!

You ARE right Andy!!! That's what I suspected as well!

Thanks Gregore! I'm so glad I came here or I would have made a dumb mistake!!! Ooops!

Hi Mal Thanks for the link. I read your thread a few days ago and thought maybe I should try it. I don't normally add cream to my milk, do you think it's necessary? I only ask because I don't have any on hand. Also in your recipe you write GLA rennet, is that just a brand name? I have double strength liquid animal rennet, so I'm assuming I'd halve the amount you listed. I'll keep you posted!! Maybe I should have PM'd these questions...I'll do that now!

Hi Everyone,

Just thought I'd vent a wee bit. I got a response from the "cheese expert" at New England. His response?

"As stated" then he copied and pasted the exact same recipe.

GRRRRR

It took SIX email exchanges and me CC-ing the Administrator of the company to finally get a straight response. As you all said, ADD RENNET ONCE. At least the Administrator admitted that she could understand the confusion, whereas the "cheese expert" who wrote the recipe was only interested in arguing, debating and evading the question. Last time I use one of their recipes!!!

Good thing I came here!!

Rain

Mal's recipe is what I use. You don't have to add the cream ... but some extra cream is soooo delicious! I think Mal's proportions give a "double cream." (Note: I'm referring to the proportions in the recipe; I am unable to comment on Mal's personal proportions! ) If you add even more cream, it becomes a "triple cream." My limited experience with the latter suggests that it significantly changes the way the cheese ripens - it get soft but not completely gooey, and it takes longer. And in taking longer, it gets rather strong. All that to say that I have decided that the double cream (or whatever is the right term for Mal's recipe) is "just right" for my tastes.