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Hi everyone. I'm new to the forum and to cheesemaking - thank you for having me.

I have purchased much of my aggregate equipment, and many of the perishables/consumables such as cultures. My problem is that I don't have the capacity, much to my disappointment, to make batch after batch of experimental cheese and storage is an issue. Of course, lactobacillus cultures are quite reasonably priced in the UK, if not inexpensive, but more esoteric strains of penicillium, and even the popular commercial ones, are expensive to get a hold of, at around £10-20 depending on rarity and capacity, and I would struggle to use quite so much before the viability of the cultures wanes. I have read that it is possible to grow penicillium on sourdough bread. Now, my problem is that I have baked extensively with sourdough bread, and I don't like how finicky looking after starter can be if I discard daily,  and I couldn't find commercial sourdough bread of any significant acidity in my region. So, long story short, it is impracticable for me to get sourdough bread, not the least because I don't really want to develop a starter for the singular purpose of creating a medium of penicillium. However, I bake a lot with commercial yeast and I have lactobacillus cultures, so would you think I could conceivably treat a dought with lactobacillus first, or do a long, cold fermentation preferential to lactobacillus and make, essentially, cultured sourdough bread?

I strongly suspect the answer to be yes, but I was curious if this is something people do.

Thank you very much.

Welcome to the forum!

Let me offer an alternative. If you are using the dried cultures, including for P. Roqueforti or similar, then you can store for a LONG time in the freezer. How long? According to my cheese log, I made my first blue cheese a little more than 4 years ago. That same packet of PR has been in my freezer ever since, periodically dipped into to make another blue, including one that I made just recently (which is shaping up to be the best I've ever made - a "Danablu" of which I cold-smoked half). So this packet has lasted at least 4 years, with no sign of any loss of potency. I fully expect to use it for another 4 years before I run out. Yes, the initial expense was higher than for many other cultures, but one uses so little of it, compared to the basic starter cultures, and amortized over 4+ years the cost is negligible. The same is true for several other higher-cost items, such as PC and Geo for making cams - they come in small packets, but my first packet of each lasted just about 4 years before I ran out. (I make cams more often than blues.) Likewise LH100 as an adjunct for alpine styles - relatively expensive, but that packet is about 5 years old and still going strong.

I don't know how my experience would compare to anyone else's, but for me the key is to keep the cultures absolutely dry. This means drying any measuring instruments as soon as they come out of the sterilizing bath, so that the residual heat will further bake them dry before I use them. I keep the packets folded up and then sealed up in small zip-loc bags with all air fully evacuated, taking them out of the freezer and opening only when ready to measure, and immediately folding and sealing them back up again.

Again, welcome to the forum, and to the obsession hobby!

Quote from: awakephd on March 22, 2019, 02:21:08 PM
Welcome to the forum!

Let me offer an alternative. If you are using the dried cultures, including for P. Roqueforti or similar, then you can store for a LONG time in the freezer. How long? According to my cheese log, I made my first blue cheese a little more than 4 years ago. That same packet of PR has been in my freezer ever since, periodically dipped into to make another blue, including one that I made just recently (which is shaping up to be the best I've ever made - a "Danablu" of which I cold-smoked half). So this packet has lasted at least 4 years, with no sign of any loss of potency. I fully expect to use it for another 4 years before I run out. Yes, the initial expense was higher than for many other cultures, but one uses so little of it, compared to the basic starter cultures, and amortized over 4+ years the cost is negligible. The same is true for several other higher-cost items, such as PC and Geo for making cams - they come in small packets, but my first packet of each lasted just about 4 years before I ran out. (I make cams more often than blues.) Likewise LH100 as an adjunct for alpine styles - relatively expensive, but that packet is about 5 years old and still going strong.

I don't know how my experience would compare to anyone else's, but for me the key is to keep the cultures absolutely dry. This means drying any measuring instruments as soon as they come out of the sterilizing bath, so that the residual heat will further bake them dry before I use them. I keep the packets folded up and then sealed up in small zip-loc bags with all air fully evacuated, taking them out of the freezer and opening only when ready to measure, and immediately folding and sealing them back up again.

Again, welcome to the forum, and to the obsession hobby!

Thank you very much. You know, I should have thought of that - it seems a lot simpler and more straightforward than keeping a jar of pet mould for every strain.

I will try to use a similar arrangement - an approximate 8 years of gradual use for £10 a pop sounds pretty tantalising. I mean, I have given up all hope of making this new hobby as economical as buying cheese, but savings are still welcome.

I know, it s a fun obsession! It feels like the possibilities are endless, what with the countless combinations of various features, techniques and ingredients!

Quote from: Cullwch on March 23, 2019, 08:48:14 AM

I will try to use a similar arrangement - an approximate 8 years of gradual use for £10 a pop sounds pretty tantalising. I mean, I have given up all hope of making this new hobby as economical as buying cheese, but savings are still welcome.

Maybe take a look at this vid. He starts talking about cheese costs at 3:30 or so.

Quote from: Lenomnom on March 23, 2019, 09:56:38 AM

Quote from: Cullwch on March 23, 2019, 08:48:14 AM

I will try to use a similar arrangement - an approximate 8 years of gradual use for £10 a pop sounds pretty tantalising. I mean, I have given up all hope of making this new hobby as economical as buying cheese, but savings are still welcome.

Maybe take a look at this vid. He starts talking about cheese costs at 3:30 or so.

Not sure if I am just missing something, but I can't seem to see the video.

Gah! My bad. The link is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z8TCPqCR7U

Skip ahead to the 3:30 mark.

Quote from: Lenomnom on March 23, 2019, 08:00:36 PM
Gah! My bad. The link is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z8TCPqCR7U

Skip ahead to the 3:30 mark.

No worries. Thank you very much!

He does make a very compelling point with artisanal cheeses, and I do welcome any savings - it's a nice extra. Although, as long as I get to have fun and experiment and make delicious cheese, I'm happy even if it is marginally more expensive than non-artisan cheese. I mean, it's a hobby that costs peanuts and yields cheese!