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I am a pretty new cheese maker and am having some trouble with a clean break.  Allow me to provide the following detail and then any help that could be offered would be appreciated.

The first two times I tried the recipe I was successful with 2% milk to 86 degrees with 1.5 tsp calcium chloride.  Then ¼ tsp freeze-dried culture (newly purchased) and sit for 90 min.  Then raise temp to 90 and add ½ rennet (also new) tab with water and 1 tsp salt.  Rest for 90 minutes or until clean break at 90 degrees.

Having made two batches with the 2% I thought I would try whole milk.  I have now tried it 3 additional times with different brand milk and never once got a clean break.  I have let it sit as long as 3 hours with no luck.  The only variable I can identify having been changed is the type of milk.  In reading these forums I have seen a lot of thoughts that may help and have narrowed it to two likely problems.  One is dissolving the rennet at the onset of the whole process (90+ minutes before adding it and I may have not done it the first times) or not adjusting the amount for whole milk. 

I may be totally off base thought.  What are your thoughts?  Help is appreciated since I will be eating lasagna for 3 months to eat up all of this messed up cheese.

What kind of cheese are you trying to make?

And, yes, you are right that you should not be dissolvign the rennet at the beginning of your process - it should be within a few minutes of adding it to the milk.

Without knowing what type of cheese, though, it is hard to answer your questions any better.

Sorry, it was late when I wrote that.  The cheese is a farmhouse cheddar (no cheddaring in the process).  A few other details I see I left out as I read again is that I use 3 gallons US milk and have used the exact same brand and type of milk successfully for mozzarella.  The mozzarella uses more rennet and citric acid though which will account for the proper curd in that process I believe.  Do you think the rennit being added in the beginning is the culprit?

Why are you adding salt in with the rennet? I've never seen that guidance before. Where is the recipe from?

The Monterey Jack recipe on this site also says to mix salt in with the rennet. Maybe to slow down the production of lactic acid?

It hasn't prevented me from getting a clean break, but the rennet does seem to work a bit on the slow side when I'm using that recipe. I'm also worried that it is preventing the enzymes from working properly.

Huh. Well, liquid rennet typically has some salt added to it (16-17%). It does help to preserve it and also helps with rennet activity when added to milk. But it's nowhere near 1 tsp.

I think that your new milk in combination with the salt are not working together. I never use salt until dry salting curds, rubbing salt, or brining. Can you try the same recipe, but without the salt? I think you're right, the enzymes are being inhibited and the ionic balance is off. Some milk can compensate for it because it's higher quality, that's why you were able to get a clean break in the past.

As an anecdotal evidence, I did add salt one time to the milk, just to see what would happen. Everything else was the same, but salt amount was 1% of final expected curd yield (.01 lb salt per gallon of milk), and I got probably the worst curd set ever. Weak, easily fractured, did not hold its shape, etc.

Yeah same result i got when adding salt now i dont use it anymore, and every btach i make is a success,without or wihtout chederring, my average time to have a clean break is 40 min here the spec that i always ave good result

Any brand whole milk (bougth)
Liquid commercial Rennet 20 drop for 4 Litter of milk
Meshophilic culture : 4oz Cultured Buttermilk preparation (like u find here on Cheese Forum)

Heat t 89 deg F
Add Mesophilic culture (stir 15 min)
Let incubate 1 hour at 89 deg F
Add the Rennet
Stir for 5 min
Wait between 30 to 45 min until form firm clean cut
Cut the curd half inch, wait 5 min
Slowly increase heat to 105 Deg F, gently mix every 5 min
cook for 1 hours.......

Very good comments folks.  The salt in rennet recipe is on a website called leeners.  They sell kits etc.  I used their mozzarella recipe once but no longer use it either.  I will try the same steps with 2 modifications.

1) do not dilute rennet until just before adding to milk.
2) omit salt until the milling of the curds.

I will let you know what happens.  If there are any other comments I would love to hear them as well. 
Is it possible to cut the recipe in half bu just halving all ingredients including the rennet?  I assume so.

Yes, it is possible to half all the ingredients for the cheesemake. When you dilute the rennet, use very cold water, and make sure it's distilled. Your tap water may have salts that rennet doesn't like, and is also chlorinated, which rennet doesn't like.

Gboyd, I just checked and you are correct, that Monteray Jack Recipe calls for salt with rennet, that is very different, I don't remember where I got it from.

vog, welcome to the forum, here's some info on causes of poor coagulation. Also, most people here with coagulation problems are also using tablet style rennet, it does work well for some people, but many have problems. If you search the whole forum from the homepage for "tablet" you'll get lots of hits.

An update

Good news for the most part.  By omitting the salt and diluting the rennet at the moments before adding to the milk I have a curd that is at least workable.  It is still not what It should be though and falls apart very easily.  I need to stir with utmost care and seldom.  I tried a second batch with more rennet but did not see a notifiable difference.  I use the rennet called M50, I think it is made by Danisco.  The recipe calls for 1/2 tablet per 3 gallons. 

This experement has brought up 2 more questions for me. 

1)Is this as good as it will get with this milk or is there something more to be done?
2)  Does whole milk typically require more rennet than 2%?

I wouldn't think the fat content of the milk would make much difference in the amount of rennet required.

Are you sure that the milk you are using is not ultra-pasteurized?  You might have to read the fine print.  In all honesty, I haven't bought milk in a store for over two years, so I really wouldn't know where to look on the label.

Are you still trying with the same brand of whole milk?  If so, (and this milk isn't UP) you might want to try a different brand, just in case the producers aren't handling it very carefully or they may be processing it differently in a way that is affecting your cheese curd.

As I've only used raw milk to make cheese, I'm afraid I don't have any practical experience to draw from, just winging it with the advice.


I wish you luck!

My understanding is that ultrapasteurized milk does not have to be labled as such. The milk can simply say pasteurized and you'll never know - until you try to make cheese.

You got me wondering now Sailor so I checked my bottle. I recently bought a 1/2 gallon of Wal-Mart milk for my coffee and the BIG label just says pasteurized. In teeny tiny print on the bottom it says:

"ESL high-temperature processing for an extended shelf life."

I wonder if that's why it makes drippy yogurt? I have only used it for yogurt a few times and it's always drippy. Sounds like it could be the same thing as Ultra Pasteurized. Maybe that's why I never get good results from Wal-Mart milk.

Well this is interesting.  I had suspected ultra pasteurization but could find no evidence of it on the packaging.  The milk is from Wal-Mart however.  Drippy yogurt and poor curds are step siblings from the same ultra pasteurized milk I suspect.  So, I think the answer to my own question may be that this is the best I can get.

Whew, that was exhausting but we seem to have hammered out and solved the worlds problems in only 3 days.  Congratulations one and all, the UN has nothing on the cheese forum.