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I won't make this cheese until the weekend, but I'm starting my planning now.  I've decided on Tim Smith's Mustard Seed Gouda for my next cheese.  Well, more or less.  I've decided on Mustard Seed Gouda based on the description in Tim Smith's book, but I hope to arrive at the specific process to use based on this thread, with your help.

This will be a three gallon make. 

What culture?  Tim Smith doesn't specify what type of mesophilic culture to use.  For that matter, neither does Ricci Carrol or Debra Amrein-Boyes.  Margaret Morris says to use Meso III or MA4001/4002, which I don't have.  I have MA-011 and MM-100.  Is one of these more typical for Gouda? 

How much primer culture? I want to use a primer culture for this cheese.  Tim Smith's recipe calls for 8 ounces of mother culture for 2 gallons of milk.  I'm planning on 3 gallons of milk.  Would I therefore use 12 ounces of primer culture?

Effect of pressing weight and time?  Recipes in various books are all over the map in terms of pressing weight and pressing time for Gouda.  Tim Smith calls for pressing at 20 pounds for 12 hours, whereas Ricci ramps up from 20 to 40 to 50 pounds for 12 to 16 hours.  Margaret wants "firm" pressure 12 to 16 hours without additional flipping after the initial few flip/redress steps.  Debra ramps up from light to medium pressure for 12 hours, flipping after 6.  What I'd like to know is how the flavor and texture of the cheese is affected by the pressing weight and time.  If I understand that, then I should be able to decide for myself what weight and time I want to target. 

Press under whey?  Press warm? Does Gouda benefit from pressing under whey to initially consolidate the curds?  Is it useful for this cheese to keep the curds warm during pressing for as long as possible (e.g., put the mold inside a warmed pot for pressing).  None of the recipes say much about this aside from a couple of references to pre-warming the colander before draining or the mold before pressing.

When to wax?  Waxing is typical for this cheese, and that is what I'm planning to do.  Tim and Ricci both say to wax after aging 3 weeks.   Debra wants 2 to 3 days drying, then a week of aging, before waxing.   Margaret says for small wheels (under 5 lbs) wax after 1 to 2 weeks.   How does the length of time spent aging in the cave prior to waxing affect the cheese?

Flocculation multiplier?  3?

pH targets?  Any recommendations?


I know that's a lot of questions.       I appreciate any help I can get.

QuotePress under whey?  Press warm?

Yes.  in a small pot\make I like to drain some of the whey and gather all the curds into my mould and let it fuse in there , helping it with my hands to eliminate pockets. After about 20-30 min. its usually ready to flip and go to the press.

QuotepH targets?  Any recommendations?

Peter dixon has a recipe with pH markers on this site.

Quote from: Caseus on May 10, 2012, 06:43:34 AM
When to wax?  Waxing is typical for this cheese

I know that according to a lot of recipes waxing is typical for this cheese, however, not anymore in Holland for artisan nor factory made Gouda cheese (Nor in the rest of Europe?). They are all coated with a plastic coating. Easy to apply, easy to clean, good protection against mold, good maturing. In fact, I couldn't think of any disadvantages    Available in yellow and transparent and in some webshops also in black and red, but most of the times yellow is used.

Use your MM 100 culture.  Search the forum for mother culture, I know Sailor Con Queso did an outstanding post about it.  I haven't used a mother (primer) culture so I won't advise on it.  Pressing is almost a personal thing.  Look, just try one and go from there.  I'll confuse you more by saying I press gouda for only 4 hours at 100 PSI, flipping frequently.  Here's the issue as I see it, INFORMATION OVERLOAD.  There is just so much knowledge and so many ways to skin a cat.  There is no 1 right way.  Pick one and try it.  Sorry, it's probably not what you wanted to hear.

Tomer1, that sounds like a good technique.  So you don't use a weight for those first 20 minutes?  Just press it in the mold by hand in a pot of whey?  A little weight on top wouldn't hurt, would it? 

hoeklijn, I appreciate the information about modern packaging techniques for Gouda.   Just to be sure, are you referring to polyvinyl acetate?  I have found some threads and posts that refer to it. 

Is it necessary to use plastic coating prior to waxing
Paracoat is listed further down the page at dairyconnection
Hard Cheese Plastic Coating - Paracoat
Leiden (Cumin Cheese)
Wax Container - Crock Pot (& Plastic Cheese Coating Product)
Plastic Coating & Waxing Cheeses

The impression I get is that most people on the forum are not especially enamored of the product.  While I know that I have bought cheeses (gouda, and a few others) that had some sort of plastic film or coating that was definitely not wax, the idea of putting it on my own cheeses is not too appealing to me. 

If I really need to age the cheese for 1 to 3 weeks before waxing, I think I would prefer to just brush and rub the rinds with salt and vinegar to keep the molds under control until I wax.  I just hope I won't get mold growing under the wax afterwards.

smilingcalico, thank you for the culture recommendation.  I do have the post from Sailor, Making Mother Cultures - A Photo Essay, and that is the process I plan to follow, more or less.   You are right about information overload.   

I've been going with a mixture of MM100 and flora danica using the www.wacheese.com recipe under moderate cooktemp. I just opened one I made 2 months ago and was blown away. It had a sweet and nutty flavor with a very smooth texture. Still mild after 2 months, but the taste is spot on. I highly recommend the recipe!

Quote
What culture?  Is one of these more typical for Gouda?

Use whatever you have. Traditionally, gouda uses DL type culture.

QuoteHow much primer culture? I want to use a primer culture for this cheese.  Tim Smith's recipe calls for 8 ounces of mother culture for 2 gallons of milk.  I'm planning on 3 gallons of milk.  Would I therefore use 12 ounces of primer culture?

About right. use 1.0-1.5% bulk equivalent. Almost all cheeses use that amount range.

Quote
Effect of pressing weight and time?  Recipes in various books are all over the map in terms of pressing

Read cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,1786

Doesn't matter how you do it so long as you achieve:

- Good curd knit
- No moisture gradients (or few as possible)
- Tight outer rind with no indentations

QuotePress under whey?  Press warm?

Both of these help with good curd knit.

QuoteDoes Gouda benefit from pressing under whey to initially consolidate the curds?

Pressing or settling under whey, yes.

QuoteIs it useful for this cheese to keep the curds warm during pressing for as long as possible (e.g., put the mold inside a warmed pot for pressing).

Not necessarily as long as possible. Have to make it work with the acidity.

QuoteNone of the recipes say much about this aside from a couple of references to pre-warming the colander before draining or the mold before pressing.

This helps to avoid cold shocking the curds.

Quote
When to wax?  Waxing is typical for this cheese, and that is what I'm planning to do.  Tim and Ricci both say to wax after aging 3 weeks.   Debra wants 2 to 3 days drying, then a week of aging, before waxing.   Margaret says for small wheels (under 5 lbs) wax after 1 to 2 weeks.   How does the length of time spent aging in the cave prior to waxing affect the cheese?

When you want. If your cheese is done, no more whey release, then first technically correct time to wax. Can go longer.

Quote
Flocculation multiplier?  3?

What kind of gouda? 3 is a good start.

Quote
pH targets?  Any recommendations?

Discussed before. Check my gouda recipe if can't find (on wacheese site)

Myrrh, that is a beautiful cheese.  That is what I want mine to look like.  Did you vacuum bag that?  It looks so clean.

Is this Pav's recipe that you and he both referred to, or is there another one on that site?  Gouda: Washed Curd Howto   

That recipe and process description seems to cover all of my questions, linuxboy!     And thank you for the additional info. 

What do you mean about the type of Gouda?   I want an easy slicing fairly mild tasting Gouda that has the kind of texture and appearance that you see in Myrrh's photo.  But not too mild.  I'm putting mustard seeds in, and so I want the cheese to develop enough so that the flavor contribution of the cheese and mustard will be fairly balanced, not overwhelming in favor of the mustard.  So I think that means a moderate aging time?  Maybe 3 or 4 months?  Six?  When I cut it, I'll rewax a portion for longer aging, just to see what it's like after a year.

What is the effect on the cheese if you wax after 1 week versus after 3 or 4 weeks?

QuoteIs this Pav's recipe that you and he both referred to

I am Pav and yes.

QuoteWhat do you mean about the type of Gouda?

There are three major types of gouda. One, mild for 80-120 day aging. Two, the 6-9 month aging. And three, the very aged that often has crystals, 14+ months. They require different approaches in moisture and culture. Sometimes, you can get away with a normal gouda make (young gouda) and age it out, but generally, have to craft them differently to get to where you want consistently flavor and moisture wise.

Quote
What is the effect on the cheese if you wax after 1 week versus after 3 or 4 weeks?

If you are very skilled and can create a finished cheese right away, not much.  Most hobbists cannot, especially at first. The 1-3 week aging without wax helps to stabilize it, and promotes better air exchange. Biggest issue is whey gradients or poor drain. If you wax a gouda like that, will have off flavors.

Thank you Pav.  I thought that was the implication   .  I'm going to use your recipe and process then. 

This additional info helps.  I will go for a longer aging without wax for the reasons you gave, as I am definitely not skilled yet.  I learn a lot from each make and I work out, with the help of everyone on this forum, how to address the problems I run into.  But I'm a long way from self-sufficiency, much less skill.

I'm going to age without wax for 2 or 3 weeks, then wax and age for 3 months, sample, then decide whether to go longer.

I did vacuum bag it. I generally leave them at room temperature for a few days, and then in my cave for about 2-3 weeks, and then vacuum. It's just easier that way.

It's pretty mild at two months, but the flavor and texture is heavenly. I have another a week behind it so I didn't mind cracking this one a bit early and leaving the other to age longer.

Thanks for the compliment, and good luck!

Can't go wrong listening to Linixboy aka Pav he's the greatest!

Myrrh great looking cheese a cheese for you!

Agreed!

And thanks Debi!

Quote from: Caseus on May 10, 2012, 03:23:33 PM
hoeklijn, I appreciate the information about modern packaging techniques for Gouda.   Just to be sure, are you referring to polyvinyl acetate?  I have found some threads and posts that refer to it. 

Yes, at the other side of the pond it is known as Paracoat. I use the same cheese labels as shown on the site of dairyconnection and I stick these labels on the wet yellow coating and afterwards finish it with a last layer of transparent coating. For cheeses like Cabra al Vino I use only transparent.

Quote from: Myrrh on May 10, 2012, 03:42:34 PM
I've been going with a mixture of MM100 and flora danica using the www.wacheese.com recipe under moderate cooktemp. I just opened one I made 2 months ago and was blown away. It had a sweet and nutty flavor with a very smooth texture. Still mild after 2 months, but the taste is spot on. I highly recommend the recipe!

A cheese for you.  That wonderful looking cheese inspired me to make this cheese today. Divided up into three baby goudas and one momma gouda at 1lb 14oz.